Does God Believe in Atheists?

by Scott Rossy
Atheists and Agnostics! Are they real? Are they honest in their views? An atheist being defined as someone who doesn’t believe in the existence of God, that there is no proof for His existence, therefore, he comes to the conclusion that the world has no Creator.

What does God say about people who make these claims? Are there really people who truly believe that there is no God? That there is no proof for the existence of God? According to scripture, the answer is no. No such people exist. Anyone who makes such a claim is a liar! God, who has spoken to us in His Word and Who is the only one Who can speak authoritatively about the heart, thoughts and mind of man, declares that every human being who has ever lived on the face of the earth since the creation of man, knows and understands that He does indeed exist. God has not left Himself without a witness. He has revealed Himself to all of humanity in one specific way, known as general revelation. God’s revelation to mankind is generally divided into two specific categories of revelation.

Two Kinds of Revelation
1) General revelation
2) Special revelation

General revelation states that God has revealed Himself through what He has created, the created world, through nature. He has also revealed Himself to the conscience of mankind.

Special revelation states that God has revealed Himself through Jesus Christ and through the scriptures.

While it’s true that not everyone has been blessed to receive His special revelation, (Jesus Christ and scriptures) it is true that everyone has been exposed to His general revelation through the world He has created.

First, He has revealed Himself to all of mankind through creation. What He has created is His witness. It reveals that there is a Divine Creator. Psalm 19 starts with:

“The heavens are telling of the glory of God; and their expanse is declaring the work of His hands” – Psalm 19:1

The heavens and their expanse, the open sky, are what is referred to here as speaking to all of humanity. They are “telling” and “declaring” two things: the glory of God and the works of His hand. “O Lord, our Lord, how majestic is your name in all the earth, Who hast displayed Your splendor above the heavens! “ – Psalm 8:1. The heavens are telling, declaring and displaying. It is the work of His hands, His creation, that is on display before us. As we observe the mighty expanse of the heavens and its utter vastness, we can clearly see and contemplate all that He’s displayed: the sun, the clouds, the moon, the stars and the planets. These are all bearing witness of Him, and all of humanity has seen that witness.

“The heavens declare His righteousness, and all the peoples have seen His glory.” –Psalm 97:6

The “telling” and “declaring” in the heavens are a continual, ongoing testimony. They are constantly bearing witness for all to see and observe. They are continually telling of His glory and continually declaring the work of His hands. All that the heavens and the great expanse contain are called “the work of His hands” and “all the peoples have seen His glory. ” He is its Creator. Psalm 19 continues:

“Day to day pours forth speech, and night to night reveals knowledge. There is no speech, nor are there words; Their voice is not heard” – Psalm 19: 2-3

“Day to day” and “night to night.” It’s a continual, ongoing revelation. A permanent, perpetual 24/7 revelation. Both day and night. Anybody, throughout the entire world can observe the expanse of the heavens during the day or night and learn from what is being revealed. What does this continual revelation reveal? “Knowledge.” The knowledge of God. The knowable things of God. Most things about God are hidden from mankind but this He has made evident to all of mankind. What’s been made known is the obvious knowledge that the world and all it contains has a Supreme, all Mighty, all Powerful, all Wise Creator. This can be known. It is knowable for mankind to understand and know that he(man) and the world around him has a Creator. It is not hidden from us. In fact it is both “clearly seen” and “evident.”

“For that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made”- Romans 1:19-20.

His divine nature and eternal power are what is evident. His divine nature refers to the fact that He is God. His divine nature and eternal power are both “clearly seen” and are “understood” by mankind. Through what has been made it can clearly be seen and understood that the One who created the world is an eternal all powerful God. If we never understood anything else from observing the creation, we should at least understand the fact that it was created by Someone, and that this Someone is of a far greater power and wisdom than us. God has placed within all of us the ability know this. It “is evident within them”.

“There is no speech, nor are there words; their voice is not heard”-v.3. There is not an audible voice speaking words from heaven, but what has been created and is on display in the heavens does speak forth massive volumes. His creation “pours forth speech.” The heavens and all it contains are not just speaking, they are pouring forth speech. It can’t be missed! All that has been displayed in the heavens and is presented before us, is a continual, ongoing “voice”. It testifies to the clearly seen, evident, obvious truth that there is a Divine Creator behind all that we see.

When speaking through the prophet Isaiah to an apostate Israel, a people who should have known better, God called on them to “Lift up your eyes on high and see Who has created these stars” so that they would remember that He is the Creator, the Almighty, the all Wise One. He reminds them through creation that He is the Creator saying:

“Do you not know? Have you not heard? Has it not been declared to you from the beginning? Have you not understood from the foundation of the earth? It is He who sits above the vault of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain and spreads them out like a tent to dwell in … Lift up your eyes on high and see Who has created these stars, The One who leads forth their host by number, He calls them all by name; because of the greatness of His might and the strength of His power not one of them is missing.”- Isaiah 40:21-22,26

In Psalm 89 when He reiterates the Davidic covenant, the Lord again points to the witness of His creation when He refers to the moon as “the faithful witness in the sky.” Concerning His covenant with David, the Lord says “It will be established forever like the moon, the faithful witness in the sky”- Psalm 89:37. The moon, the stars, the sun, and the planets are all His witnesses, speaking and testifying of Him.

Not just Israel, but the entire human race is called to “Lift up your eyes on high and see Who has created these stars.” All humanity since the creation of time has this same witness. Anywhere in the world this witness is clearly seen and is evident. It’s visible for all to see. It does not take superior intelligence to see and observe what He has displayed before us. All that is seen in the heavens He has placed there to reveal a glimpse of His divine nature and eternal power. When we observe and contemplate the creation around us, it should cause us to be in awe of a Creator God with such power, glory, majesty, intelligence and might. When we think about how immeasurable the universe is it should cause us to contemplate how immeasurable and infinite the One who created it is! Through observation and human reason we will come to the conclusion that the world was founded by wisdom. There is an intelligence behind the design, structure and order of the earth and the heavens as they are on display before us. “The Lord by wisdom founded the earth; by understanding He established the heavens.” –Proverbs 3:19. “It is He who made the earth by His power, Who established the world by His wisdom; And by His understanding He has stretched out the heavens.” – Jeremiah 10:12. Things didn’t “just happen” by a chance explosion that created this design and order. That defies logic! The world was created by wisdom and understanding, not by chance.

All that’s been created continually pours forth speech that there is a Creator, and this Creator possesses infinite, unlimited, wisdom, understanding, power, might and majesty. These things reveal much about the One who created all things. There is much wisdom, understanding and beauty to be observed by contemplating His creation:

The awesomeness and power of the sun. It’s been placed at just the right distance from the earth to keep the temperature of the earth in the proper range that will sustain the inhabitants of the earth. If it were just a little closer it would cause the earth to burn up. If it were just a little further it would cause the earth to freeze.

We can also clearly see the beauty found in a sunset, cloud formations, full moons, eclipses, crescent moons and starry nights. All these heavenly bodies: the moon, the stars and the planets all continue on in their same fixed position just as when He created them. I remember as a little boy my mother pointing out to me the Big Dipper and the Little Dipper. When I look up and still see them today in their same fixed position as when I was a boy, it reminds me of His faithfulness, that He “upholds all things by the word of His power.” – Hebrews 1:3. and that “He calls them all by name; because of the greatness of His might and the strength of His power not one of them is missing.”- Isaiah 40:26. If these things have continued to be true in my short vapor of a life on this earth, how much more awesome is it when we consider the fact that they’ve remained in place since the day He first called them into being

We can learn and observe the wisdom and understanding found in the migration of a flock of birds. Their order and structure, flying in formation, taking turns in the lead. It is understood that the bird that is leading the formation begins to tire more quickly than the other birds due to the fact that he is facing a greater wind resistance. Since the birds know this instinctively, they take turns in the lead to give each other a break. This is wisdom, built into them. A big bang cannot bring these things about. Only a wise, loving Creator would cause these things to be.

Mankind can also contemplate and understand the wisdom of God from observing what’s been created and placed with us here on earth. There is so much to be learned it’s astounding. Just studying botany, astronomy, insects, animals, the human body, the human brain, the human eye, the human heart, the laws built into nature, etc., we will see an amazing display of the fact that there is an intelligence of infinite wisdom behind all that we see. To name a couple: spiders and ants. A spiders’ ability to spin a web is incredible. The wisdom that is contained in their web spinning process, the building and construction, with their ability to catch their prey bears witness that an all wise, infinite God is behind their creation. The wisdom that is found by observing the workings of ants is also amazing. The teamwork, order and structure in which they carry out their tasks reveals the wisdom of their Creator in building these things into them. “Four things are small on the earth, but they are exceedingly wise: the ants are not a strong people, but they prepare their food in the summer.”- Proverbs 30:24-25. “Go to the ant, O sluggard, observe her ways and be wise, which, having no chief, officer or ruler, prepares her food in the summer and gathers her provision in the harvest.” – Proverbs 6:6-8. Even these tiny creatures have built into them the knowledge to understand the seasons and to prepare for their provisions.

What has been displayed in the heavens as well as what has been created on the earth is not limited to just a few to observe, but has been made known and is evident for all who dwell on the earth to see. Speaking of what is displayed in the heavens, Psalm 19 continues:

“Their line has gone out through all the earth, and their utterances to the end of the world.” V.4. Through all the earth, to the end of the world these things are displayed and seen. What is it these heavenly bodies are bringing with them to the end of the world? Their “utterances.” Again the point is driven home that they are speaking, bearing witness, testifying about the Creator who made them. The psalmist continues by speaking about the incredible presence of the sun.

“ In them He has placed a tent for the sun, which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber; It rejoices as a strong man to run his course. Its rising is from one end of the heavens, and its circuit to the other end of them; and there is nothing hidden from its heat.” – v. 4-6.
The presence of the sun, shining its light and bringing heat from one end of the heavens to the other end. The entire earth is covered by its light and heat. There is no place that the sun does not make itself visible. “there is nothing hidden from its heat.” Even a blind man is exposed to this tremendous witness in the heavens. He may not be able to see it, but he can surely feel the heat of the sun and can contemplate the effects of this incredible creation. Perhaps because he is blind, his senses are even more observant to what’s around him. He can hear the sounds of the birds, the sounds of the ocean waves crashing, and can understand the power and might of God. He can hear the sound of the breeze through the trees and can feel the wind blow. He as well as all of humanity can hear the sounds of crickets as well as all the other nighttime creatures. Man should contemplate and meditate on the creation around him. It is speaking volumes. Gods witness is all around us, for all to see and understand. It should cause us to be in awe when we considers the vastness and infinite wisdom, design and creativity of the world around us. God is not a part of and is separate from His creation, but if His creation is this vast and awesome, it only reveals how infinite the One who created it is in all His Being! When we consider these things, our proper response should be “When I consider Your heavens, the work of Your fingers, the moon and the stars, which You have ordained; What is man that You take thought of him, And the son of man that You care for him?”- Psalm 8:3-4. Our contemplation of these things will lead us to the correct conclusion that God is so infinitely awesome, and so far above us, that in comparison we are of very little significance. This should cause us to be in awe, that He’d even take thought of and care for us, thus causing us to give thanks, and bringing all the more glory and praise to Him.

Mans Response

So what does man do with the witness that God has revealed to him? Does he in response to this revelation seek after and worship and praise his Creator with a thankful heart? No. Man takes the clearly seen, evident truth that’s been revealed to him and suppresses that truth in his unrighteousness. Romans 1: 18-22:

“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.” – Romans 1:18-22
These verses make it clear that man does indeed clearly know and understand that the world does have a divine Creator, but in response to that truth, he suppresses that truth in his unrighteousness. These scriptures are very clear that in reality there is no such thing as an atheist, and declare that all of humanity does indeed know the truth of the existence of God, because He has made it evident to us. The problem isn’t that there is no clear evidence before man in order for him to make an informed, reasonable decision. These verses are clear that “they knew God” and that His divine attributes are “clearly seen” and “understood.” As a result, the bible plainly states that man is “without excuse.” He has no excuse for rejecting and suppressing the clear plain truth that’s been revealed to him. Man in his rebellion against his Creator, refuses to “honor Him as God or give thanks.” Man not only knows and suppresses the truth about God, but in his idolatry places man at the center of his existence. Since man has rejected God, he has to believe in something. Something has to be the center of his existence. Man becomes the center. Man, instead of God is the reason for everything. God is left out. There is no place for Him in our world. Mankind, human wisdom, technology is essentially what is worshipped. Man decides for himself where he came from and where he is going. Man controls his own destiny. He decides for himself what is right and what is wrong. He does only what is right in his own eyes. He will not submit to or be accountable to God. Man’s accountability before God is rooted in the fact that God is his Creator, and that man has been created in His image. If He created everything, then He owns everything. He says, “The world is mine and all it contains.” – Psalm 50:12. If He created man in His image and placed him in the world He has created, He owns man, and is the God to whom man is accountable. He has the right to demand worship, obedience and allegiance from what He’s created. To avoid this and to soothe his conscience, man creates all sorts of silly theories about the origin of the world, all of which exclude God. God calls mankind fools, with darkened hearts, who are futile in their speculations. Man thinks he is wise and even professes to be so, but God’s evaluation of him is that he is a fool! “Professing to be wise, they became fools”. Some of the most brilliant, intelligent men in the world, scientist of a far greater intelligence than me, in their suppression of the truth are reduced to come up with their own, alternative theories. The most popular of these theories about the origin of the world is the big bang theory and evolution. This is what the stubborn, foolish, rebellious, hardened, darkened, futile heart of man produces. This is pathetic. Sadly, from Gods perspective, they are nothing more than educated fools.

"For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.” – Romans 1:21-22

“The fool has said in his heart, ‘there is no God’” – Psalm 14:1. ‘The wicked, in the haughtiness of his countenance, does not seek Him. All his thoughts are, ‘there is no God’.” – Psalm 10:4.
In exchange for the truth of God, the clear revelation of Himself that He has given to all humanity, man replaces that truth with a lie. This idolatry, pure and simple. Man refuses to worship God, and places himself at the center of his existence. This exchange, man worshipping himself, making himself his own god, is the center of the human condition. “For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.” – Romans 1:25.

Gods Judgment

In return for mankind’s rejecting and suppressing the truth of God and exchanging it for a lie, God in an act of judgment, gives man over to the control of his sin. Three times in Romans chapter 1 it is recorded that “God gave them over”. Gave them over to what? To the control and domination of their sin. We read, after man exchanged the truth and the glory of God for the lie, “God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them.” – Romans 1:24 “For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural.” – Romans 1:26. “And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper.” – Romans 1:28. “God gave them over”, God gave them over”, “God gave them over”. It is driven home three times. God gives man over to “the lusts of their hearts”, “degrading passions” and “a depraved mind.” Man does not want to acknowledge God, so He, in return gives man over to the control of his sin. This sin only hardens mans heart even more, which leads to more sin, which leads to mans heart being hardened even more, which leads to even more sin and on and on, until mans heart becomes totally depraved and callous, full of all sorts of evil.

“And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.” Romans 1:28-32.

Man is “being filled” with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed and evil. In the end, man will stand before his Creator and be judged for his sin and then sentenced to an eternal hell and separation from the God he has always rejected. It is an act of judgment for God to give someone over to the control of his sin, and it is an act of mercy and grace for Him to intervene in a person’s heart to convict them and chasten them for their sin, causing them to grieve over and be sensitive to their sin. “So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.” – Romans 9:18. This is why He warns, “Today if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts.” –Hebrews 4:7 and even as believers we are commanded to “Watch over your heart with all diligence, for from it flow the springs of life.” – Proverbs 4:23. The heart is like a garden that needs to be continually tended to and cared for, kept soft. Sin has a very deceitful, hardening effect on our hearts which is why we are told to encourage one another, and why we are warned not to be “hardened by the deceitfulness of sin” – Hebrews 3:13.
The pattern is: The eternal God creates the world and all it contains, including man in His image. He clearly reveals Himself to all of humanity. In response, all of humanity rejects and suppresses the truth. In judgment of mans rejection of Him, God gives man over to the control of his sin, causing man to become even more hardened. In the end man is judged for his sin and sentenced to an eternity of suffering away from the presence of the Lord.

Man was created by God and for His purposes, and to bring glory to Himself, but man in his stubborn rebellion, denies God. This is the cause of all the evil in our world. Mans idolatry. His separation from his Creator. His refusal to submit to his Creator, and therefore being judged by Him and being given over to the control of his sinful, hardened, callous, deceived heart. Idolatry is the root of all mans problems and is his greatest sin. All other sins flow out from and are a result of the sin of idolatry. Knowing this, is it any wonder the world is in the condition it is in? Should we expect it to be any different? That’s why any attempts by Christians to clean up our culture or to “change the world for Jesus” are a waste of time. Mankind is existing under the judgment of its Creator. Only the gospel can change a person. “For it(the gospel) is the power of God.” – Romans 1:16, I Corinthians 1:18. and only it has the power to transform a spiritually dead sinner into a God honoring child of God.

Universal Guilt

This is true of all of us, even the redeemed of God, before we were saved. We are all idolaters. We believers were also “as the rest.” (“Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.”) – Ephesians 2:3. While it’s true that we, as well as most of the people on the earth never claimed to be atheists, we all do or did live our lives functioning as atheists. We won’t outright deny the existence of God. Much of humanity will acknowledge that there is a God and that He is the Creator. They may even have God in their thoughts from time to time, or very often, but they are still leading their lives on their own terms, living a lifestyle of stubborn self will apart from His Lordship. It was definitely true in my life before I came to know the Lord. I professed to know Him, but in reality, in my heart I didn't know Him. "They profess to know God, but by their deeds they deny Him, being detestable and disobedient and worthless for any good deed. " - Titus 1:16. I never denied His existence or the fact that He created everything. I always believed these things to be true. I was very conscious of Him and even had frequent thoughts of Him, but in my heart of hearts, I denied Him. The heart of man: the seat of mans affections, where his will, mind, thoughts, imagination, desires, loves and allegiances reside, is where God is denied. We do not honor Him as God or give thanks to Him or give Him the worship, praise and glory due Him. We don’t seek to live for Him. We live according to self will, living our lives as we see fit, deciding for ourselves what is right and what is wrong, following and conforming to the world’s spiritually dark system which leaves God out and is under the control and influence of the devil, the evil one ,who is called ”the god of this world.” - II Corinthians 4:4. We live in a world system described as the “cosmos”, that is under the influence of this evil one. We are all apart of and go along with this evil, anti-God world system that denies His rule and authority over His creation. There are no exceptions. We all start here. All of humanity is who is spoken of in Romans 1. The first three chapters of the book of Romans reveal the guilt of all humanity. “There is none who seeks for God.” – Romans 3:11. “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” – Romans 3:23 and we are “all under sin.” – Romans 3:9. The starting point of all humanity is to reject God and suppress the truth that’s been revealed to us. Only born again believers have passed from darkness to light and love the Lord and desire to obey and worship Him on His terms. This is why we as Gods children are commanded to no longer be apart of this evil world system that has allied itself against Him. “We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.” – I John 5:19. therefore, “Do not love the world nor the things in the world If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.” - I John 2:15. and “do you not know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.” – James 4:4.

Anyone who denies that this is the true condition of all man and the world we live in should carefully consider what Romans 1 states. “Even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks.” - Romans 1:21. Can we truthfully say that humanity is honoring God and is giving Him thanks?

Not Enough

Is this enough? Is this sufficient revelation in order for man to be saved? Some Christians falsely teach that yes, man can be saved by responding to the revelation given in creation and be saved, without faith in Christ! But scripture teaches otherwise. There is enough revelation in creation to condemn man, but not enough to save him. There is enough light given to make man “without excuse”, before the Lord, but in order for him to be saved, he needs more revelation, special revelation. He needs the revelation of the Person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ. Apart from this, man will remain eternally lost, under the judgment of God. Paul speaks of this need for the revelation of Jesus Christ in Romans 10. He teaches that a man must believe in the Lord Jesus Christ in order to be saved. He must believe in both the Person and the finished work of Christ on the cross. His death, His burial and His resurrection. Man must believe in Him in order to be saved. He must have faith in Someone. He cannot just observe the creation and gain enough truth to be saved. Belief in Christ is mandatory for one to be saved. For "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED." – Romans 10:13 But Paul makes the point that in order for someone to be saved, they must first hear about the Person and work of Christ. Hearing the gospel of Christ is essential. Creation isn’t enough. He states: “faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.” – Romans 10:17. In order for someone to have faith in Christ, they must first hear about Christ. Therefore he states, “How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!" – Romans 10:14-15. The point is this: in order for someone to be saved they must first hear about the cross of Christ. They then must believe what they heard about Christ. But in order for them to hear and believe, someone must first preach the gospel to them. Someone must be sent, or go and bring the gospel to them. Then they hear what is preached and can believe in and call upon the One who is preached to them, and are saved. The revelation of creation does not reveal the work of Christ on the cross.

So why do people claim to be atheists? Is it that they’ve studied the evidence and truly can’t find any solid proof for the existence of God? No. Whenever we are talking with someone who makes the claim that there is no God or there is not enough evidence to determine if there is a God, remember that in reality we are speaking with someone who is suppressing the truth that has been clearly revealed to him. There is a spiritual reality at work here. It’s really an indication of the person’s hardness of heart and ultimate hatred of the Lord and his unwillingness to give Him the worship and glory that is due to only Him. Only by the mercy and grace of God working in a person’s heart can a person ever be turned around. This is solely His work and is done for His glory and praise Thankfully, He does do this in some of us. “He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.” – Romans 9:18. Praise Him for His mercy and compassion. All we can do for anybody is pray for their salvation and share the gospel with them. We can’t change their spiritually dead heart, only the gospel can. “For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.” – Romans 1:16.

Free Will, Why Pray?

by Scott Rossy
Earlier this year I participated in an online Christian forum where I discussed/debated a variety biblical/theological issues and topics with fellow Christians. This post was originally written for and then published in that forum. Before I posted this in that forum, there had been an ongoing, heated Calvinism/Arminianism debate taking place, particularly in the area of the sovereignty of God in the salvation of man, a.k.a. “the doctrine of election.” Since this is a matter that is very close to my heart I decided to weigh in on the subject and enter into the fray. Ever since 19 years ago, when I experienced the miracle of the new birth, I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about and meditating on what the bible has to say about the work of God in bringing about this new birth. This post is a little longer than most but I have modified it a little for this forum. I pray that anyone who reads this will be blessed by it and will be edified by it and that it will serve to magnify and glorify the Lord in His work of redemption on our behalf

The post was in response to the overwhelming majority of Christians on that forum that were steadfast in their belief in the free will of man and the passiveness/ semi-passiveness of God in our salvation. It was written in response to their position. The length is due to the fact that the “Sovereignty” position was being trashed and I wanted to explain in a little more detail what the thinking is behind the sovereignty point of view. That being said, a lot more could have been written since the biblical revelation about Gods sovereignty is practically mentioned on every page of the bible and election is not divorced from this. As the title suggests, there is a question that I am asking. It’s sort of a rhetorical question. A “food for thought” type of question. After my question I would like to share my thoughts on the subject.

Among those who do believe in the doctrine of election there is a discussion about the order of a couple of things. Although both sides are in total agreement that God is totally sovereign in the salvation of man, there is a difference of opinion as to what takes place first. The difference is: Does faith come before the new birth or is the new birth the antecedent to faith? Perhaps this is splitting hairs. I’m not sure we can say for certain how the Holy Spirit works in our heart in bringing us to salvation or when the exact moment a person is truly regenerated, but I take the position that the new birth comes first and faith is a result of the new birth. I used to believe that faith came first. Perhaps it would be safer to say that they both (faith and the new birth) arrive at the same time.

Some things before my question.

Through years of talking with fellow Christians and reading what others have written I can say that the gist of the free will position is this: In order for mans salvation to be truly honoring to God, man must be completely free to either choose or reject Him. Otherwise God would be forcing man to believe, making him a robot. In order for mans love for God to be genuine, he would have to believe on his own, of his own free will and choosing, otherwise God would be forcing him to love him, and that wouldn’t be honoring to God. Since God created man in His image, He respects and honors his freedom of choice. This is very, very important to God. In order to protect mans free will, God is willing to set aside or limit His sovereignty for the sake of preserving mans freedom of choice. God doesn’t force Himself on anyone. He’s waiting for man to choose Him. Although He wants to save everyone, He can’t, due to the limitations He’s placed on Himself. There can be no salvation, unless man makes a decision to choose God. If man decides he wants Gods salvation and accepts Christ, then salvation occurs. Then mans love for God will be truly genuine and will be pleasing to God. In all kindness, I have to say that although very popular, this line of thought, while sounding very reasonable, for the most part is not very biblical.

An often raised objection by those who reject the sovereignty position is: If God is completely sovereign in all things, and if His will cannot be thwarted, and if the sinful acts of man are included in His decrees, how can he turn around and judge man for those sins? Aren’t they (we) only doing what He wants us to do? Is it fair for Him to judge man for his sins when they are ultimately a part of His Divine decrees? There is much, much we don’t know about these things but I believe the bible does address this matter, as will be seen later in this post. There is much that is hidden from us, but interestingly, He has given us a glimpse into these things. "The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever.” - Deuteronomy 29:29.

When discussing the doctrine of election with those who oppose it, they usually try to turn the discussion into a discussion about the life of John Calvin, by attacking him personally, saying all sorts of evil about him and making the discussion about Geneva in the 17th century. Whether there is any truth to what they say or whether it’s all lies is irrelevant. In my years as a Christian I’ve probably spent all of 10 minutes reading the words of John Calvin. It’s of little consequence to me what he said or how he lived. I also could care less about what Jacob(James) Arminius or his disciples had to say. As a child of God the only authority I recognize in these matters is the Word of God, the Bible. As it says “To the Law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because they have no dawn.”- Isaiah 20:8. That is to say, if they don’t speak in accordance with the revealed Word of God, it is because they have no light, they are speaking from darkness.

Two more things before my question. I would like to state that I firmly believe in the complete, absolute and total Sovereignty of the Living God. I believe this sovereignty of His extends to every realm of His creation including the physical world (nature), angels, demons, animals and humanity. This would also include His Sovereignty in the realm of the salvation of man. I believe this to be taught throughout scripture. - To get into an in depth discussion about what the scripture reveals about His sovereignty would be very lengthy and I don’t want to stray from the subject at hand but I would like to say just a few things about it. Like all the Lord’s attributes, His Sovereignty is infinite and cannot be limited. For He is the infinite Almighty God and all of His attributes are infinite and cannot be limited or measured. His Holiness is infinite and cannot be limited or measured. There is never a time when His Holiness is not infinite, absolute and complete. At all times He is completely Holy. There is never a time when His Holiness is either limited or set aside. This is true of all of His attributes. This is true of His Holiness, His Love, His Mercy, His Wrath, His Justice, His Grace, His Truth, His Omnipotence, His Omniscience, etc. and this is also true of His Sovereignty. He is completely Sovereign at all times. He not only has a Sovereign will, He has the means and ability to carry out whatever it is His will desires. He is not limited in any way, and always accomplishes what He desires. “Whatever the Lord pleases, He does, in heaven and in earth, in the seas and in all the deeps” –Psalm 135:6. “Our God is in the heavens, He does whatever He pleases.”-Psalm 115:3. And He says in Isaiah “My purpose will be established, and I will accomplish all My good pleasure…truly I have spoken; truly I will bring it to pass, I have planned it, surely I will do it.”-Isaiah 46:10,11. “Even from eternity I am He; and there is none who can deliver out of My hand; I act and who can reverse it?”- Isaiah 43:13. And Job after learning many things about the Lords sovereignty said “I know that Thou canst do all things, and that no purpose of Thine can be thwarted.”- Job 42:2. The point is this: His Sovereignty just like all His attributes are infinite, unlimited and immeasurable at all times. At all times He is infinitely Sovereign, as well as infinitely Holy, infinitely Powerful, infinitely Wise, etc. It’s who He is. He simply cannot be other. To be less He would cease to be who He is: God. This is the nature of God, the True Deity. If He can be limited in any way or by anyone, He would cease to be who He is: God. If He can be stopped from accomplishing what He desires, He wouldn’t be God. The teaching that He sets aside or limits His Sovereignty in any way so that He doesn’t infringe upon mans free-will is simply not supported by scripture. Brothers and sisters please remember this: The sole purpose and reason for Him creating the world and all it contains is to bring glory to Him. There is no other purpose. The purpose for our salvation is just one of the ways that He brings glory to Himself. The sole purpose of Him redeeming rebellious sinners is to ultimately bring glory to Himself. True, we the redeemed as His children experience unfathomable joy as a result but ultimately even the joy we experience will only serve to magnify and exalt who He is as we spend an eternity praising Him and declaring His Greatness. Everything is owned by Him and exists for Him. There is no other purpose. For His purposes and His glory alone. “The earth is the Lord’s, and all it contains, the world, and those who dwell in it.”-Psalm 24:1. “There is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord , Jesus Christ, by who are all things, and we exist through Him.”- I Corinthians 8:6. "For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities – all things have been created by Him and for Him.”-Colossians 1:16. He says , "For the world is Mine, and all it contains" - Psalm 50:12.

Just one last thing before I pose my question: I gladly give Him all the credit and all the glory for my salvation. It is 100% of Him and 0% of me. From beginning to end, start to finish I view my salvation as completely His work. If He did not predestine me and elect me for salvation, I would be forever lost, still abiding under His wrath and judgment. I never would have come on my own. I will be forever thankful that He didn’t sit back and wait for me to come to my senses and seek Him on my own. He initiated my salvation and will ultimately complete it in glory. I never sought Him. He sought me and saved me. I was lost but now I am found. As the Lord Jesus said “the Son of Man came to seek and to save that which was lost.” –Luke 19:10 I view my new birth, my faith and my repentance as all gifts given to me from Him and He deserves and will get all the credit, glory and praise.

My Question

My question is a sincere question and I ask it not out of anger but as a fellow Christian who has always sought an answer. During friendly conversations I’ve had with other Christians I’ve asked this question but have never received a solid answer or one that made much sense. The answers were always full of contradictions. My question is for those who believe in the free-will of man. To those who believe that our salvation depends on man choosing, and making a decision to believe in Christ. That without mans decision to believe, there can be no salvation. Those who believe that the Lord respects the free-will of man and that He respects anh honors his freedom of choice. That the Lord won't to infringe upon man’s freedom, and in order to accomplish this He chooses to either set aside or in some way limit His Sovereignty.

My question is this: Have you ever prayed for the salvation of a loved one, a friend, a neighbor or a co-worker? If so, what is it you are asking the Lord to do? Are you in any way asking Him to change that person? To change his/her heart or mind? To intervene in some way? To take them off the path they have already chosen? If He were to answer your prayer, wouldn’t He be violating his/her free-will? If they are not seeking Him already on their own, isn’t that their choice? Haven’t they already chosen their own path? If He were to intervene in any way, wouldn’t He be attempting to change their will? Wouldn’t that be an infringement on their freedom of choice? Wouldn’t He be exercising His power as a much more powerful Being to change another free being? And hasn’t He chosen to set aside or limit His power(Sovereignty) over that person so that they can choose Him freely, on their own? Aren’t you asking Him to do something He cannot do or what He has chosen He will not do? If He did answer your prayer and intervene and turn that person around, isn’t it unfair of Him since He doesn’t do that for all the unsaved? He doesn’t answer every prayer that is prayed for another person’s salvation. Couldn’t that be considered unfair? Wouldn’t He be choosing one over another? Why would He choose to answer some prayer requests for someone’s salvation but not for others? What about someone who doesn’t even have someone praying on their behalf? If John Doe has someone praying for him and the Lord intervenes and overrides John’s free-will and he eventually comes to faith, wouldn’t it seem unfair that Jane Doe who never had someone prayer for her salvation continues in darkness and is lost forever? Something has to give. If He has set aside or limited His Sovereignty for the purpose of man’s free-will, aren’t you asking Him to do something He has no intention of doing? If He doesn’t set aside His Sovereignty and does answer your prayer to intervene in that person’s life, He’s violated that person’s freedom. - It is something to consider. When you pray for another person’s salvation consider what it is you are asking Him to accomplish. When I pray to the Lord to save someone I am coming to Him believing that He is totally Sovereign at all times and that no one can resist His will. I’m praying that He would totally intervene in that person’s life. My request is not that He’d let the decision rest in their hands but that He would crush and break to pieces their hardened, stubborn, rebellious heart of stone. I could care less about their free-will. I hope He would totally change them and destroy their wicked self will. They don’t know what’s best for them. I pray He would open their hearts as He did for Lydia in Acts 16:14 and to open their minds to understand the scriptures as He did in Luke 24:45. I pray He would grant them both repentance and the faith to believe, which can only come from Him. I hope He would totally overcome them with His presence and that they would come to see Him as the completely Holy One that He is, thus seeing themselves as vile sinners, worthy of only His wrath and Judgment, thus causing them to cry out for His mercy and grace, thereby coming to salvation. As far as their will is concerned, they’ve already made their choice. They’ve rejected Him. They’ve exercised their will and chosen the path they’re on. They have no idea the condition they are in. I pray He overrides their stubborn, evil, self-will and shows them mercy and grace.

The Sovereignty of God, freedom of the will, predestination, election debate has always fascinated me and I would like to give my thoughts as to why I believe the scripture teaches that He does predestine and choose(elect) some for salvation. I think it’s a very important truth. I believe the reason that so many Christians struggle with election and consider it unfair is because they hold an incorrect view about what the bible teaches concerning mans true condition. Perhaps we struggle with election because we don’t truly see ourselves as the Lord sees us. Only the Lord can speak authoritatively about the nature of man: his soul, his heart, his motives, his conscience and his will. God has revealed these things to us in His Word and His evaluation of mankind is horrific. If we have the doctrine of man correct, the doctrine of election not only makes sense, but will bring us an even greater appreciation of the salvation we have been given. If we have a wrong view of man’s condition it is only natural that election seems unfair.

Before getting to man’s spiritual condition I want to say a few things about the devil. He plays a role in this as well so I will discuss a few things about him. Let me say that although the devil plays a real role in this, man is totally accountable to his Maker for his own condition. All (unsaved) man will stand before the Lord to give an account for each one’s own individual sins. “we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God“- Romans 14:10 “each one of us shall give an account of himself to God” –Romans 14:12 “And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened, and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every on of them according to their deeds.” – Revelation 20:12-13. No one will ever stand before the Lord and claim “the devil made me do it”. Each person is responsible and accountable for his own deeds but the devil does have an effect on man’s condition.

The Devil
The devil, also known as Lucifer or Satan is a created being, a created angel. Created by the Lord, he is not eternal. He has a beginning and an end. He is not equal with God. What is believed to be the account of his creation and fall from heaven is recorded in Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28. He was perhaps the most, wise, beautiful and powerful of all the angels. Of him it is said, “You had the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.”- Ezekiel 28:12. This being, who was full of wisdom and perfect in beauty became filled with pride and sin. Rebellion overtook him. He didn’t want to serve God anymore, but wanted to be God himself, worshipped by the Host of Heaven(the angels). "But you said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, and I will sit on the mount of assembly in the recesses of the north. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.' " - Isaiah 14:13-14. As a result of his blasphemy, he was judged and lost his position in heaven and was cast down to earth. God said of him “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor. I cast you to the ground.”- Ezekiel 28:17. As the eternal Son of God, Jesus Christ said: “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.”- Luke 10:18. A multitude of other angels followed him in his rebellion against the Lord and were cast down with him. They are now what are called demons and although very powerful, are filled completely with evil.

The Nature of man
To understand the nature of man we must go back to the creation of man on the earth. “And God created man in His own image, in the image of man He created him: male and female He created them.” – Genesis 1:27. Adam, it could be said, was the only one who truly possessed free-will. He was created without sin, in innocence. “God made men upright.” – Ecclesiastes 7:29. Adam walked with God in perfect harmony. There was peace between God and man and they enjoyed unbroken fellowship together. Their relationship was created to be like this. To test the man’s obedience, faithfulness and loyalty to Him, The Lord gave the man one command. “And the Lord God commanded the man saying ‘From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you shall surely die’” – Genesis 2:16,17. There are two very, very important things to notice in this verse: “surely die” and “in the day”. This is critical in understanding the nature of man and cannot be overlooked. First the words “you shall surely die” These words spoken by the Lord indicate what the consequences will be if the man sinned against Him. The word surely is a guarantee that it would definitely take place. Second the words “in the day”. If the man were to sin, the consequences of his sin would occur immediately. Immediate death would be the result. As we know, in time the man did disobey the commandment of God and sinned. The serpent, the devil first came to the woman and deceived her with a lie saying ”You surely shall not die!”- Genesis 3:4. Thus he ( the devil) called God a liar by saying “You surely shall not die”. Eventually the woman and then the man followed the lie of the devil and ate from the tree, sinning against God. “When the woman…she took from it’s fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.” – Genesis 3:6. They believed the devil rather than God. God had said “You surely shall die” and the devil said “You surely shall not die!”. The Lord spoke the truth. Immediately (“the day”), something happened. The man’s nature changed instantly. He had just died spiritually. Adam did not die physically, that would take place years later but he did die spiritually. The rest of scripture would elaborate on what this spiritual death entails and how it effects us. – When the Lord approached Adam, he ran and hid himself from the Lord. The man’s new nature caused him to fear the Lord. The peace, communion and fellowship he once enjoyed with the Lord was now severed. He did not want to be close to the Lord. His new nature now caused him to blame the Lord for his sin, saying “The woman whom Thou gavest to be with me, she gave me from the tree and I ate.”- Genesis 3:12. He blamed the Lord for giving him the woman and he also blamed the woman for his sin. She in turn blamed the devil. This is the beginning of mankind’s sin nature. This is where sin entered the human race. Mankind is not today in the same condition as he was the day the Lord first created him. - Although man was created in the image and likeness of God and for His glory, he had now allied himself with the enemy of God, the devil and joined with him in his rebellion against both of their Creator. The devil wanted to be a god, he now got what he desired. Man, who was created to obey the Living God, disobeyed Him and obeyed the devil instead, thus making the devil his god. By right of conquest, scripture refers to the devil as “the god of this world”- II Corinthians 4:4. The Lord Jesus refers to him as “the ruler of this world.”- John 12:31.

The Apostle Paul points back to this one act of disobedience by Adam as the root of the condition of mankind. Adam stood before the Lord as our representative, the Federal head of the human race. Scripture directly states that Adam’s sin and the spiritual death that followed automatically spread to all of humanity. Scripture states “in Adam all die” – I Corinthians 15:22. “through one man(Adam) sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men”-Romans 5:12 "by the transgression of the one the many died”- Romans5:15.“the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation”- Romans 5:16. “by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one “- Romans 5:17. “through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men”- Romans 5:18. “through the one man’s disobedience, the many were made sinners”- Romans 5:19. These verses make it clear that the one act of disobedience by Adam and the death that he incurred has been inherited by all his descendants. As God Said to Adam “you shall surely die”. From the creation of man, God established the law that “when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death”- James 1:15 “the wages of sin is death”- Romans 6:23. Our parents can give us physical birth, but they cannot give us spiritual birth. As the Lord Jesus said “That which is born of the flesh is flesh.”-John 3:6 and “you have no life in yourselves” –John 6:53. We come out of the womb without spiritual life. We are spiritually dead, sinners from birth. As David said “I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me”- Psalm 51:5. David is not saying that the act of conception was sinful but that he had the nature to commit iniquity and sin within him from the time of his conception. He said “The wicked are estranged from the womb; those who speak lies go astray from birth.” –Psalm 58:3. Man is a sinner by nature and by choice. The only exception to this is the Lord Jesus Christ. He did not inherit Adam’s sin nature. He was born of a virgin, conceived by the Holy Spirit.-Matthew 1:20 Being fully God and fully Man He lived a perfectly righteous, sinless life. Perfectly obeying the Father at all times. This would negate the idea that it is our environment or upbringing that causes us to sin. He lived in the same wicked world as us and was “tempted in all things as we are yet without sin”-Hebrews 4:15.

The sin of mankind is universal “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God … there is none righteous, not even one; there is none who understands, there is none who seeks for God; all have turned aside, together they have become useless; there is none who does good, not even one”. Romans 3:23, Romans 3:10-12. “Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and never sins” . - Ecclesiastes 7:20. Scripture speaks of us as “dead in trespasses and sin”-Ephesians 2:1. This spiritually dead condition produces evil of every kind within man and a will that is bent towards self-will, in rebellion against the rule and Holiness of God. This internal evil is described as effecting every area of a man: his heart, his mind, his conscience, his thoughts, his imagination and his will. The human heart is described as “deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked; who can know it.”- Jeremiah 17:9. We are described as “haters of God” – Romans 1:30 “hostile towards God”-Romans 8:7 and His “enemies”- Romans 5:10. Scripture speaks of us as “lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God”-II Timothy 3:4 Of fallen man, the Lord Jesus Christ had a lot to speak, saying “you do not have the love of God in yourselves”-John 5:42 . He called us “evil”-Matthew 7:11. and said “men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their deeds were evil”-John3:19. This evil He said resides in the heart of man and is what produces the evil acts saying: “For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries, deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride and foolishness. All these evil things proceed from within and defile the man.”-Mark 7:21-23. Scripture declares: “the intent of man’s heart is evil from his youth”-Genesis 8:21. “the hearts of the son’s of men are full of evil, and insanity is in their hearts throughout their lives.”-Ecclesiastes 9:3 Of wicked man it is said "The imaginations of their heart run riot." - Psalm 73:7. We are described as “being detestable and disobedient, and worthless for any good deed.”-Titus 1:16 “we are all an unclean thing, and all are righteousnesses are like filthy rags”-Isaiah 64:6 In the eyes of a Holy God, the most righteous deed we can produce, He describes as filthy rags. Unlike us, The Lord is so completely pure and Holy that His “eyes are too pure to approve (look at) evil”-Habakkuk 1:13 and of Him it is said that He “dwells in unapproachable light”-I Timothy 6:16. describing the infinite, immeasurable, purity of His Holiness. "There is no one holy like the Lord" - I Samuel 2:2. "Holy is He" - Psalm 99:5. Nothing created can compare with His Supreme Holiness “He puts no trust in His holy ones(angels), and the heavens are not pure in His sight; how much less one who is detestable and corrupt, man, who drinks iniquity like water.”-Job 15:15-16. who walk “in the futility of their mind, being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart; and they, having become callous, have given themselves over to sensuality, for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness.”-Ephesians 4:17-19. “both their mind and their conscience are defiled.”-Titus 1:15 We are described as being “by nature children of wrath”-Ephesians 2:3. Scripture declares that man is not free but that he is a slave. A slave to sin and unrighteousness. The Lord Jesus Christ said “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.”-John 8:34 Who commits sin? All of us. "There is no man who does not sin." - I Kings 8:46. Therefore we are described as “slaves of sin”-Romans 6:20. “enslaved to various lusts and pleasures”-Titus 3:3. No, man is not described as free, but as a slave. A slave to his own sinful nature as well as a slave of the devil, the god of this world. “the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.”-I John 5:19 The Lord Jesus describes fallen man as “sons of the evil one”-Matthew 13:38 “You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father.”-John 8:44 Fallen men are “children of the devil”-I John 3:10 “having been held captive by him to do his will.”-II Timothy 2:26 “the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God”-II Corinthians 4:4. It is impossible for fallen man, controlled by his sin nature, blinded by the devil to even understand the truth of the gospel. He doesn’t possess the ability. As has already been stated he is darkened in his understanding. He does not possess the ability within himself to either understand or seek for God. “A natural man(an unregenerate person) does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.”-I Corinthians 2:14 “the word of the cross is to those who are perishing foolishness”-I Corinthians 1:18 When the gospel, spiritual things are told to man, he not only does not have the ability to understand, he views it all as foolishness. "The word of the cross is to those who are perishing foolishness." - I Corinthians 1:18. In fact it is impossible for man, in this spiritually dead condition to please God. All he posesses is his corrupt, evil sin nature which is "hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so.”-Romans 8:7. and we are told that he “cannot please God”-Romans 8:8

This is a brief look at how God views man. A lot more could have been said about man’s totally evil, rebellious, corrupt, spiritually dead condition. This is the starting point. All of us start in this condition. The Scripture refers to us as a lump of clay and the Lord as a Potter. Romans 9, Isaiah 45:9, Isaiah 64:8, Jeremiah 18. There is no difference between us. We are all in the same condition. We are “the same lump” (of clay) spoken of in Romans 9:21. We are an evil, rebellious, corrupt, spiritually dead lump of clay. At this point, if we accept scriptures evaluation of us, we would have to say that God would be totally just in sending every one of us to an eternal hell. We don’t deserve His mercy or grace. He was not obligated to save anyone. The fact that He chose to send His Beloved Son into the world to save any of us was completely an act of unfathomable grace and mercy. The decision to save us was purely of His grace. It's not that He saw something within us that caused Him to send His Son to the cross. There is nothing worthy about us. Of all the angels who rebelled with the devil against the Lord, the Lord chose not to redeem any of them. There was never any salvation provided for them (Hebrews 2:16). Once they sinned, their eternal destiny was sealed, an eternity in hell. Hell is described as being prepared for them, as the place of their eternal punishment under the wrath of Almighty God. If God were to save just one person it would have been an act of unfathomable grace, but the fact that He decided to save a multitude of people from every nation and every tribe (Revelation 7:9) on the earth is a grace that is incomprehensible. If we truly view ourselves as God has revealed in Scripture, and if we truly see things from His side, we gain a greater understanding into how great His Grace and Mercy are in saving any of us.

Is man really free? We’ve seen that he is described as spiritually dead, evil, a slave to sin, a child of the devil, enemies of God, hostile towards God, in darkness, hater’s of God, corrupt, wicked, without love for God, detestable, disobedient, filthy, defiled, deceived, spiritually blind, cannot please God, cannot understand spiritual truth and thinks the truth is foolish. Slaves by definition are not free. God could have chosen another word to describe us but He didn’t. He makes it clear that we are slaves. Slaves to our evil sinful nature and all its desires as well as slaves to our father the devil. In this condition Scripture declares “God has looked down from heaven upon the sons of men, to see if there is anyone who understands, who seeks after God. Every one of them has turned aside; together they have become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one.”-Psalm 53:2-3. “All of us like sheep have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way.”-Isaiah 53:6 “there is none who seeks for God, all have turned aside”-Romans 3:11,12 Man, in his fallen, unregenerate condition does not seek for God. We are like our forefather Adam, who ran and hid from the Lord. It could be said that man is still running away, hiding from God.

So, is man really free? In one sense yes, he is. There is nothing outside of man that is preventing him from choosing God. God is not stopping him from seeking Him. It's just that there are none who are seeking after him. So in one sense yes, man is free. He has the freedom if he desires to seek for God. But none do. Man has no such desire. Man always exercises his freedom to reject God, to turn away from Him and go his own way, to choose his own path. In rejecting and rebelling against God, man is acting in accordance with his nature and this is what that nature produces: rejection, sin and rebellion. Nothing is stopping man but his own sinful, self-willed nature. A few illustrations:

1) Suppose we have a healthy, hungry lion in the jungle. We put before him a freshly killed zebra and a bowl of chef salad. Which one is he going to choose? He’s going to choose the zebra, he’s a meat eater. That’s his nature. He’ll always choose the meat over the salad. In one sense, yes he has the choice to choose either one. No one is forcing him to choose the zebra and no one is preventing him from choosing the salad. He’s just acting within his nature.

2) Is it possible for God to lie? In one sense it could be argued, yes. If He chooses to He could. There is nothing or nobody outside of Him that is preventing Him from telling a lie and nobody is making Him tell the truth. But in reality no, He “cannot lie”-Titus 1:2 Because it is not His nature to lie. He is the God of truth, He doesn’t have the ability to lie. It would go against His nature.

3) Here is another example, and one that gives us some insight as to how the Lord uses the sinful acts of sinful beings to accomplish His will and purposes, but without Him causing them to sin. He is not the author of the sin they commit and He does not tempt them to sin, but the sin is a part of His decree and purpose. In return they will eventually be judged and punished for the sin they freely and willingly choose to commit.

“And Micaiah said, ‘Therefore, hear the word of the Lord. I saw the Lord sitting on His throne, and all the host of heaven standing by Him on His right and on His left’. And the Lord said, ‘Who will entice Ahab to go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?’ And one said this while another said that. “Then a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord and said, ‘I will entice him’. “And the Lord said to him, ‘How?’ And he said, ‘I will go out and be a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ Then He said, ‘You are to entice him and also prevail. Go and do so.’ “Now therefore, behold, the Lord has put a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; and the Lord has proclaimed disaster against you.” - I Kings 22:19-23.

It was the Lord’s will for Ahab to go to battle at Ramoth-gilead and be killed. The Lord accomplished His purpose through a deceiving spirit, a demon. The deceiving spirit became a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all of Ahab's prophets. These prophets, with the deceiving spirits in them, told Ahab that if he went into battle he would be victourious. "Then the king of Israel gathered the prophets together, about four hundred men, and said to them, "Shall I go against Ramoth-gilead to battle or shall I refrain?" And they said, "Go up, for the Lord will give it into the hand of the king." - I Kings 22:6. This was a lie. He was to be killed in this battle as punishment from the Lord. Ahab listened to them and went to battle and was killed. The Lord didn’t cause this deceiving spirit to lie. The deceiving spirit did it willingly. He acted within his nature. Will the Lord judge him for his sin? Yes. The demons are aware of this and know that their final destiny is to be tormented in the Lake of Fire. They would ask of the Lord Jesus “What do we have to do with You, Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?”-Matthew 8:29 They know their final destiny, but they continue to be evil because it is their nature. They can do no other. This gives us a little insight as to how the Lord uses the sinful acts of men and demons to accomplish His will, yet without Him causing their sin. At the end, they are judged and punished for the deeds they willingly chose to do. - (This is an amazing account. The Lord has revealed to us a tiny glimpse of the inner workings of His throne room and the angelic world. We can gain much understanding and insight into how He uses the devil and His demons. They are still a part of His plan for this world and are totally under His sovereign control. See also Job chapters 1, 2.)

4) Can pigs fly? Of course not. It’s not their nature. They don’t have the ability to fly. They never desire or think about flying. But what if God in His Sovereignty chose to give some pigs wings? If He equipped them with everything they needed to function and use those wings? Would those pigs begin to fly? Yes. They now have the ability. They have been given a new nature to do so. They would now function in an entirely different realm. They would no longer wallow in the mud. The same could be said of man’s salvation.

The Apostle Paul writes to Christians in the letter to the Ephesians. He’s writing to those who are in Christ, who have been born of the Spirit. In chapter 2 he starts out by describing our condition before we came to Christ. He says:

“And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the son’s of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of the flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. But God”

BUT GOD!

That’s it. That is the answer. The only answer, the only hope for mans desperate, hopeless condition. But God! God did something. We were dead in sin. And all that that spiritually dead sinful condition entails. We were followers of the devil, son’s of disobedience, living in lust, indulging the desires of the flesh and mind. We were by nature children of wrath as the rest. But God! God did something. What did He do. He intervened with some. Paul continues:

“But God, Being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, MADE US ALIVE together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus, in order that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness towards us in Christ Jesus.”There’s the answer. We were dead. We weren’t seeking Him, we didn’t have faith, we couldn't produce faith, we couldn't understand the spiritual, but God intervened and MADE US ALIVE. He took spiritually dead people and gave them spiritual life. The new birth. This is totally His work. Only the creator of life can give life to that which is dead. The Lord Jesus said, “It is the Spirit who gives life, the flesh profits nothing”-John 6:63. and “That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”-John 3:6 We’ve been given a new nature. Whereas before we were spiritually dead, now, we are spiritually alive. God made us alive. We can now function in a different realm. We now have the ability to understand the things of God. We now have a new heart and a new mind. We’ve been given “the mind of Christ”-I Corinthians 1:16. We once were blind, but now we see. We’ve passed from darkness to light. “For He delivered us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the Kingdom of His beloved Son.”-Colossians 1:13 We’ve passed from death to life. Because we are now “a new creation”-II Corinthians 5:17., we now desire Him, to know Him and to obey Him. We now have love for Him, to worship Him and to praise Him. We now have the “ears to hear”-Matthew 11:15 that The Lord Jesus spoke of. We’ve been born again (from above). We are now a brand new creation in Christ, "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them." - Ephesians 2:10. This doesn't make us robots, just a newly created, born from above child of God who now loves Him. We can now see what we couldn't see, hear what we couldn't hear, understand what we couldn't understand, love Him who we couldn't love, believe what we couldn't believe, know what we couldn't know. This is what The Lord Jesus Christ meant when He said “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”-John 3:3. Notice He said unless and cannot. This is absolutely necessary. Without it we are all still spiritually dead. This was all the work of God. We weren’t seeking it. None of us. We were “as the rest” mentioned in v.3. If He hadn’t intervened and done this miracle (the new birth), none of us would be saved. We'd all continue on in our lostness with "the rest." He receives all the glory, praise and credit. Our repentance and faith are both gifts from Him, given to us by His Spirit. We’ve been adopted into His family. Before the new birth, all we had was the old sin nature. It cannot produce faith or repentance or a love for God. Only His Spirit can give us these things. When the Holy Spirit comes, He gives us faith, repentance, love for God, and the ability to understand the things of God.

This can also answer the question of one of the other posts: “Do you need to be born again?” Of course we do! The bible is clear: we are either still “in Adam” or now “in Christ”. There is no in between. And those of us who are in Christ have been crucified with Him, died with Him, were buried with Him, raised to newness of life with Him and will eventually be glorified with Him.

So is man free? As stated, in one sense yes, but he always exercises his “freedom” to reject God. “There is none who seeks for God”. If the Lord never intervened to save some, all would be lost. The rest are allowed to continue on the course they’ve chosen. They are like those who say “We do not want this man to reign over us”-Luke 19:14 The Lord was under no obligation to provide a way of salvation for the devil and the angels who sinned with him, and the Lord chose not to do so. In the same way, He was under no obligation to save man, but He did choose to have mercy on him for the purpose of bringing more glory and praise to Himself. As was said before, it’s not as if there are multitudes of people who are pleading with God for mercy and salvation and He is refusing them because they aren’t among the elect. There are no such people. They don't exist. None choose Him.

As the verses mentioned earlier stated, man will stand before the Throne of God to give an account of himself. Man is still accountable to God and responsible for his sins. Scripture doesn’t say that man will be judged for his sinful nature, but that he will be judged for the sins that that sinful nature produces. Man has an accountable or responsible will.

I know that those of you who are in Christ, and are saved, no matter if you believe in His sovereignty or not, will agree with the rest of what I have to say but I’d like to complete it anyway.

All of humanity is guilty before God. All have sinned. God is completely Holy and pure. Nothing defiled or polluted can enter into His presence. Man is unfit to enter into His Holy presence. The Holiness of God demands that those (all of us) who have rebelled against His Holy Law be punished. That would consist of being cast away from His Holy presence into the torment of an eternal hell. His Holiness and His Justice demand that sinners be punished. He can’t just overlook sin for the sake of overlooking it. He wouldn’t be a just God if He did. Since no human being has ever completely obeyed His Law in both thought and deed every single second of his time on earth, God chose to prepare a Substitute for us. One who would stand in our place before Him. In the Old Testament God started preparing for the coming of this Substitute with the nation Israel. Through Moses He instituted the sacrificial system, that is animal sacrifices. God established the principal that “without shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness”-Hebrews 9:22 The animals that were being sacrificed represent the coming Substitute. Their life had to be taken and their blood had to be shed. “For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood by reason of the life that makes atonement.”-Leviticus 17:11 It was the responsibility of the high priest to represent the people before God with the blood of the sacrificed animal. The animal and the priest represented the coming High Priest, The Lord Jesus Christ. The animal was to be without spot or blemish. It represented the coming Lamb of God, the Lord Jesus Christ who was "a lamb unblemished and spotless." - I Peter 1:19 The unblemished, spotless blood of Christ represents His completely Holy and sinless, perfect life. The animal sacrifices were never intended to take away the sin of the people but to remind them of their sin and their constant need of forgiveness as well as to point to the coming Substitute. “in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year”-Hebrews 10:3 - The Lord Jesus Christ, the Eternal Son of God, came into the world, born of a virgin, conceived by the Holy Spirit. Matthew 1:20. He did not inherit Adams sin nature. He was fully God and fully man. He came as the fulfillment of the Substitute. He lived a perfect, holy, sinless life. Being God, He never sinned in thought, word or deed. The Father said of Him, “This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”-Matthew 3:17. It was the Father’s plan before the foundation of the world to send His Son into the world to be man’s substitute Acts 2:23, I Peter 1:20. - As stated, the O.T. animals that were without spot or blemish represented the perfect sinless life of the Lord Jesus. The Lord Jesus offered Himself up on the cross as a sacrifice to His Father in heaven. The cross was His altar and He shed His own blood. The Lord Jesus became mans substitutionary sacrifice for sin. As was said before, mans sin deserves to be punished in hell for all eternity. As mans substitute, the Lord Jesus took our punishment for us on the cross. “Christ also died for our sins once for all, the just for the unjust”-I Peter 3:18 The wrath of the Father that we deserve was poured out on the Lord Jesus. “He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed”-I Peter 2:24 “God made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.”-II Corinthians 5:21 Every sin, past, present or future that I would commit, Christ bore in His body. God the Father placed His wrath for mans sin on the Lord Jesus “He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities…the Lord was pleased to crush Him, putting Him to grief. If He would render Himself as a guilt offering.”-Isaiah 53:5,10 Christ is our High Priest. He entered into the presence of God with His own blood to make atonement for sins. Hebrews 8-10. Christ died, was buried and on the third day He arose from the grave. “Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures.”-I Corinthians 15:3,4. The resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ is proof that the Father accepted His sacrifice. He was well pleased with His Son’s sacrifice. Those who are in Christ have had the penalty and punishment for their sins paid for in full. The perfect, sinless life that the Lord Jesus lived has now been credited to the believer. God now sees us as clothed in the perfect righteousness of the Lord Jesus. The Lord Jesus illustrated this for us in Matthew 22:1-14. Believers will now stand in the presence of God and “be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith.”-Philippians 3:9. Standing before a Holy God, accepted, clothed in the perfect Righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ. Praising, worshiping and thanking Him for eternity! Apart from Him, there is no salvation. He alone is the way to be reconciled to the Father. "For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" - I Timothy 2:5. "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved." - Acts 4:12. The Lord Jesus stated: "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me." - John 14:6. and He warned, "unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins." - John 8:24. The salvation call now goes out wherever the Word of God is preached. The call today is “repent and believe in the gospel”-Mark 1:15 “Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord will be saved.”-Romans 10:13. The Lord Jesus Christ says; "Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light." - Matthew 11:28-30. and in the gospel of John He says; "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out." - John 6:37.

The Lord promises this. Whoever calls on Him in faith and repentance will be saved. No exceptions. He does not turn away any, and all who do call upon Him will be saved. There will not be people who call upon Him with true repentance who will not be saved. God cannot lie!

I for one cannot thank or praise Him enough for seeking and saving me. All the glory, praise and thanks belongs to Him. The Sovereignty of our Heavenly Father makes my heart leap for joy. I rejoice in knowing that He’s in control of EVERYTHING. I am one who has believed in His Sovereignty in my salvation ever since the first day I was saved. I don’t know if Romans 8:31-39 would be of much comfort to me if I didn’t truly believe He is totally Sovereign over all things. If He's not in control of all things, how can He promise me that He "causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose."? - Romans 8:28. This verse is spoken of in the context of His predestination and election of the redeemed. If there are things outside of His control or if He is sitting back, being careful to respect the free will of man in all matters, how can He truly cause all things to work as He desires? What comfort is that to a child of God? This and the promise of “being confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ.”-Philippians 1:6. wouldn’t be of much comfort if His will is thwarted. The promise in this verse is that salvation is completely of Him, from start to finish. He began it and He will complete it.

I'm aware that among most Christians the thought of God predestining and electing some and not others for salvation is a very unpopular, hated and despised doctrine. I’ve always seen it as clearly taught in Scripture and always saw it as magnifying and exalting Him all the more. As stated earlier, our salvation is solely for His praise and glory alone. Paul mentions this 3 times alone in the first chapter of Ephesians. He says in Ephesians 1:6 of our election and predestination that it is "to the praise of the glory of His grace" and again in verse 12 that it is "to the praise of His glory" and again in verse 14 that it is "to the praise of His glory." It can't be missed! It’s all to the praise of His glory. The redeemed will spend all of eternity praising Him for His grace and mercy for choosing to rescue us from our completely lost condition. We will forever know what we were, and what it is that we deserved, and will forever give Him all the praise and glory, knowing that if He never chose us, we would have perished with the rest. Someone who opposed me in this had this to say, "No, God gives all of us the freedom of choice, to either choose Him or to reject Him, and thank God I chose Him." This kind of reasoning makes no sense to me. Why would someone give thanks to God for something they themselves did? It sounds an awful lot like the mindset of the Pharisee mentioned in Luke 18 who gave thanks to God for all that he (the Pharisee) had done. Where is the glory of God in that? Let us all repent of such foolishness and give all the glory and praise to God for His complete salvation and for providing everything that is needed for the completion of that salvation. Let the self glorying, sinful pride of man be debased and let Him be exalted and magnified in all things, especially in the salvation of man! It's His will, not mans that matters. "It does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. " - Romans 9:16.

If you made it this far and read everything I’ve written I thank you. Pages and pages more can be written about this vital doctrine. I pray the Lord will use this to bless you and that the reading of this will exalt and magnify His Name and will be used for His glory, causing all the redeemed to think about the salvation He's brought about. Sadly, the overwhelming majority of the Christian world will not even think about or consider the truth that our salvation is 100% from, and by Him.

“He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.”I Timothy 6:15

Sons of Korah - Psalm 117 Live



Click link below to learn more about Sons of Korah:

 Sons of Korah

Sons of Korah

by Scott Rossy
Sons of Korah (SOK) are a Christian music group/band from Australia. As their name would indicate, they are a psalms focused group and their very name is derived from the book of Psalms. While most of the bibles 150 psalms were credited as having been written by King David, approximately 13 of the psalms were credited to “the sons of Korah”. Psalm 42, the well known “as the deer pants for water” psalm is credited as having been written by the sons of Korah. The band does not write its own lyrics but records exclusively the psalms of the bible, beautifully and melodically setting to music the word of God.

The band was formed in the 1990’s while some of its members were attending divinity (seminary) school in Australia. While there, the founding members, already accomplished musicians discovered that they had in common a love for the psalms. From this the bands psalms project was formed. To date, Sons of Korah have recorded 6 full length studio albums along with one EP and one live album.

SOK’s musical style is centered around the acoustic guitar. They do not use electric guitars. Having said this, their music is not solo acoustic. They are a 5 piece band with a very eclectic, multi ethnic sound. It’s hard to label them as having one particular sound. Depending on the particular song they can sound folk, blues, semi classical, folk rock,  Latin, Hebrew, Arabic, French, Indian, African and more. Other instruments besides the acoustic guitar that can be heard on an SOK song are drums and various percussions, bass guitar, piano, organ, violin, cello, accordion, keyboards, resonator guitar, slide guitar, synthesizer, mandolin, Hammond organ, Indian Harmonium, flugelhorn, trumpet, lap steel guitar, oboe and more. Their sound is also not restricted to one particular mood. As the psalms themselves portray varying moods, so do SOK’s recordings.

Founding member Matthew Jacoby is the main songwriter as well as the bands lead singer. Matthew has a doctorate in philosophy/theology from the University of Melbourne in Australia. He is a part time teaching pastor at his local church. Founding member Rod Gear is also one of the groups’ songwriters as well as musician extraordinaire.

Sadly, Sons of Korah are basically unknown to the US Christian community. There are numerous reasons as to why this is the case. Among them are that SOK are not under the control of a major record label. They are independent. This is a positive in that they have full control over their music and the direction of the band. They are not dictated to by a label as to what they can or cannot say. The Christian music scene has changed much since the 1970-1990’s. While it was always a for profit business it was still in the early days also viewed by the artists as a ministry. In the last 15 years the Christian music labels have been purchased by the larger secular record labels. They saw that there is a profit to be made in the contemporary Christian music scene and absorbed the Christian music as a sub genre within their labels. While this can lead to greater promotion and a wider distribution of the music it also gives the record execs the right to dictate what the content of the music will be. Thus most of the music on Christian radio is devoid of any scriptural or theological content. This is by design. It’s meant to appeal to a larger audience. It’s meant to be “crossover” music. To appeal to the non believer. It is meant to be “positive” and “uplifting”. IMHO the contemporary Christian music scene of today is pathetic and unlistenable. In the CCM world where “Jesus is my girlfriend” lyrics are the norm, and where the musicianship and song composition is sophomoric, a band of skilled musicians that sings exclusively the word of God is not going to be too popular. But thankfully, in the midst of this, SOK is a breath of fresh air. By their own admission they are out of the box of the Christian music scene. Says Matt Jacoby, “We never really fit very well into the commercial Christian music scene and so going with a label and doing the regular promo route could never have suited us.” He continues, “The reason I would listen to Christian Music specifically is to use it to draw my mind back to the things of God and to feed myself spiritually. To be honest I get a bit disappointed by stuff that sounds like it is more concerned with sexing up the Christian faith than it is with either making good art or really offering something substantial for spiritual reflection.” I agree with Matthews’ assessment and can say that SOK has succeeded in using their God given musical gifts to draw the listeners mind back to the things of God and to feed the listener spiritually with scripturally reflective songs. What better way to meditate on the word of God than to have it sung in a skilled and melodic way? SOK does just this.

Sons of Korah are my all time favorite. They are the best I ever heard. All my life I’ve been a music lover, having amassed a large collection of varying types of music and have always been drawn to those who possess superior musical skill (musicians music) and SOK are definitely extremely skilled musicians and composers. SOK view their music as ministry and they have truly ministered to me. I often find myself having one of their songs running through my mind which leads me to thinking about and meditating on the words. Since the lyrics are the word of God itself, I find my soul being fed and my mind being refocused on God’s truth.

If you’ve never been blessed to hear their music, do yourself a favor and give them a listen. All of their albums are great and you can’t go wrong with any of them but I’d recommend starting with the album “Redemption Songs”. This has proven to be their most popular and is loaded with one great song after another.

Sons of Korah Website:   www.sonsofkorah.com

Albums

Hand to the Plough, EP
Light of Life
Redemption Songs
Shelter
Resurrection
Rain
Live Recordings, Vol. 1
Wait

Concert Trailer